HarleyTechTalk

I see Baker offers a bigger throw out bearing for the 6 speed transmissions. Anyone have one to give feedback on?

http://bakerdrivetrain.com/heavy-duty-throwout-bearing-kit

I don't see it to be any different from the other heavy duty bearing offerings around, but they are better than stock.  That said some of the offerings use machined washers instead of proper thrust bearing washers which is a big No-No.

IMO to put a decent bearing in there the Inner Ramp needs to have the bearing recess enlarged to take a bigger bearing yet again.   The bearing length area on the end of the oil slinger is the limiting factor.

Baker sent me one today free of charge in an effort to show me that they want to make me happy after a huge fiasco involving their +1.5 oil pan. They also sent me a street door and a T-Shirt. Both the bearing and the street door look like nice pieces. We'll see how they good they are in time.

A few pix would be appreciated, do the thrust bearing washers look legit or just machined washers?

FSG do you think a sprag bearing would be one to use , like they have in autos trans , one way operation ,just thinking , cheers barny

I'm not auto proficient, do they actually make one that'd sit between thrust points?

yes one way sprag bearing  clutch stops you from over riding the gear your in,works in only one direction , going down a hill, doesnt let you go faster than the reves you are in to the gear your in , like driving a auto trans in D ,keeps going, you use 3rd or 2nd they dont over run , so you dont have to use your brakes cheers barny

I'm having trouble envisioning how one could be used to replace the throw out bearing. 

I'll post pictures of the throwout bearing and the street door as soon as the pieces arrive. Heres a shot of a street door borrowed from another site.[attach=0] [attach=1]

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Heres an image from the Baker Drivetrain site. Does this help you?

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Threw this kit into my 01RK 2 weeks ago. I had a MRC 15* ramp and with leather covered reduced reach levers I was only getting .045 release. Baker kit has 18* ramps so for me it was worth it for the HD bearing and all. Washers seemed to be the real deal and the machined out recess on the ramp was done nicely. Also put a spring on the clutch cable for good measure. Sorry no pics. My only bitch was the gasket was folded over, so used a harley factory authorized gasket. Hope that won't void the Baker warranty.

QuoteWashers seemed to be the real deal

Yes that is what would concern me.  I did a lot of research on wafer bearings a few years ago when I beefed up the throw out on the Fatty.

I may have to get a Baker Throw Out to check it out.

I got some stuff from Baker Drivetrain today. The races/washes in question for the heavy duty throw out bearing look legit. The Street Door is a finely crafted piece as well. Look forward to seeing if I can tell a difference with these items on.

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What is the OD of those Baker Thrust washers?  I'd say anything larger than 0.8" and they would be too large to fit the oil slinger.

Those thrust washers still concern me as their ID does not match that of the Wafer Bearing. 

I need to get a Baker Throw Out to check.

Quote from: FSG on July 24, 2013, 10:36:02 AM
What is the OD of those Baker Thrust washers?  I'd say anything larger than 0.8" and they would be too large to fit the oil slinger.

Those thrust washers still concern me as their ID does not match that of the Wafer Bearing. 

I need to get a Baker Throw Out to check.

I had to spread the tangs out a little on the oil slinger when installing. I don't see a problem with ID on Baker's washers. They are the same diameter as the shaft. H/D bearing is bushed and the bearing rollers are riding on a surface with plenty of distance from inner and outer edges of washers. Other than the bushing for the bearing all is the same mechanically as standard bearing. Might have concern about wear to bushing but it is brass/bronze.

I'm yet to find a legit thrust bearing washer that doesnt have the same ID and OD as it's associated wafer bearing, which is why those thrust washers still concern me. 

I'm yet to get one in hand but at this point I'm betting they are just machined washers, even well machined washers, but they are not legit thrust washers.

And the reason Baker(?) and others have used machined washers in lieu of thrust bearing washers is so they dont have clip/e-clip/c-clip concerns holding it all together on the oil slinger.

Pardon my ignorance but I guess I'm not understanding your concern about the ID and OD of the bearing vs the races or washers not being the same?

I'm yet to find a wafer bearing that has the ID and OD of those washers and IMO I never will as one dosent exist.  If by chance I'm wrong then IMO it wouldn't work very well as the roller would be too long.  That said, if the wafer bearing dosent exist then neither does the thrust washer. 

So those washers are just that albeit well machined and there is a big difference between them and an actual thrust washer.

Then again it may just be the "doubting Thomas" in me.

I could be wrong but Baker's "washers" didn't look like something normally used as a washer. Maybe a spacer. Even the ID / OD of their part makes me believe it wasn't made to be stuck under a nut.  I didn't do a hardness test on them but they had that feel of a harden metal piece. I figure Bakers setup can't any worse than the stock parts and with the larger bearing it might have a better chance of not eating it's self up if the "washers" are up to the task. Time will tell.

The one one washer in the kit pictured in the post above looks like it was run over a surface grinder. My bet they are hardened and ground.

Ok, got a good part of the install done for both the throw out bearing and the street door. BulldogBiker, I think you may have yours installed improperly. The instructions for the throw out bearing clearly states the you DO NOT use the oil slinger with this setup. Therefore, bending the tangs out is unnecessary. I posted some pictures below that will hopefully answer the questions about the ID and OD of the thrust washers and the wafer bearing. The OD of the washers and the bearing are the same. The ID of the wafer larger but you install the brass bushing to fill in the space/size difference between the washers and the bearing. Hopefully you can see from the pics below what Im talking about. The Street Door did not come with any instructions and it was after hours when I decided to call Baker so I had to install it without any directions. It is a nice piece and the bearings are more robust. Baker says 28% wider than stock. When torquing the nuts onto the mainshaft and countershaft, the gears would jump teeth so you have to be careful with that part of the install and Baker claims this is where part of the problem lies with the stock setup. Obviously the shafts are supported on the opposite ends of the door when they are installed into the housing but the stock bearings and retainer cir-clips flex and allow the gears to separate or  push away from each other where they mesh together from the mainshaft to their respective gear on the counter shaft. The Baker setup as you can see uses the wider bearing and the steel retaining plate to hold the bearings and keep the shafts from flexing away from one another in high HP/TQ applications. Here are some photos.

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More pictures

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QuoteI posted some pictures below that will hopefully answer the questions about the ID and OD of the thrust washers and the wafer bearing. The OD of the washers and the bearing are the same. The ID of the wafer larger but you install the brass bushing to fill in the space/size difference between the washers and the bearing. Hopefully you can see from the pics below what Im talking about.

Nice pix, thanks.

I'm aware of the brass bush and it's purpose and would actually prefer those marketing these Heavy Duty Throw Out Braring Kits to actually use the Thrust Washers made by the same company that makes the Wafer Bearing, be that Timken, SKF, FAG or another.  Then the ODs and IDs would match and a longer bush to accomodate the Wafer bearing and 2 x Thrust Washers would be required, BUT as I've said earlier, "And the reason Baker(?) and others have used machined washers in lieu of thrust bearing washers is so they dont have clip/e-clip/c-clip concerns holding it all together on the oil slinger.".  It's not that hard a task, I've done it myself and I much prefer a Bearing Company manufactured Thrust Washer over a machined washer any day.



And I must agree with BullDogBiker when he says " I figure Bakers setup can't any worse than the stock parts ". 

Another question:  What Degree Ramps are in the kit?

Nevermind, I can see 18 degs when blowing the pic up.

  Didn't have the directions handy when I installed the kit. Can't see it hurting anything, slinger doesn't change fitment of bearing to washers unless it would interfere with lubricating the bearing. I'll check/remove it next time I service the transmission.

If it all fits I'd prefer the slinger to remain as the oil will dribble off the tangs on/into the wafer bearing.

Can someone post the directions that come with this HD TO Bearing?