Clutch ?

[Superheat9]

OK Bare with me here. I took the bike out for a 80 mile ride yesterday, After being gone on a jobs for a week. I didn't bring my earplugs alone. The banging as I shifted gears drove me nuts.  Here is my question.  Would adjusting the primary chain just a little looser help? I know this drove me crazy when I 1st got the bike. My old shovel shifted like a hot knife through butter.   

[Admiral Akbar]

My old shovel shifted like a hot knife through butter.

Mushy shifting... Hhhmm It also had less oil in the primary... Max

[moscooter]

 
Hopefully you're not using syn3 in the trans.  If so,  switch it out of there and replace it with Redline H.D. and you might just see a real difference.

[Superheat9]

Using Mobil 1 gear lube. I just remember my earplugs next time.  When I go up this morning I just started thinking if the primary chain was a looser it may not knock as loud. Thought maybe it was a dumb question,,, but then decided who cares ask anyway.

[moscooter]

 
Well,   some of us might offer some opinions that would help ya,  but need to understand what yr bike you have and if the tensioner is "stock".

The late model Harleys have gone to the hydraulic actuated tensioners but the unit has (ratchet teeth) on it which does (NOT) allow the chain to slacken at all.   This has caused some of us to go to the HOTBIKE.COM tensioner which is basically the same,  but does not have the ratchet teeth.

If you have an earlier model with the tensioner that requires manual adjustment,  then there are other options there also.

[FSG]

The late model Harleys have gone to the hydraulic actuated tensioners but the unit has (ratchet teeth) on it

Are you saying the HD Primary Chain Tensioner is hydraulic actuated ?

[Superheat9]

04 FLHR. Installed 07 style cam plate and tensions last winter. The shifting noise on the TC has always been an annoyance.  Took it for a test ride after install new speedo/tach today. Sitting still with the clutch in it still snaps/bangs. Adjusting primary chain looser isn't going to change a thing. Just one of those

[harleytoprock]

The banging is because the clutch plates are sticking a little to each other. The twins cams do it more than the evos. I think this is because the twin cam clutch has  more frictional surface area and creates a slight drag when disengaged. It may also be from a different frictional material used. Different fluids help and also proper adjustment to get the best clutch release. Try redline heavy shock proof in the trans and MTL or type F atf in the primary. I'm also not a fan of the easy clutch ramps as it limits disengagement travel. I don't believe the bang is from the chain but its from the gears not releasing easy and then changing speed abruptly when slipping into the next gear. Next time when shifting into third, only pull the clutch lever half way,let the engine back to an idle and shift. BANG! You'll also feel more effort with your foot to move the shift lever. Its also better to be low on side of the primary fluid than to be over filled. If there any aftermarket clutchs out there that use a harder frictional material, that would help to get better disengagement. We need lubricant in the primary but sometimes it acts like glue.

[moscooter]

The late model Harleys have gone to the hydraulic actuated tensioners but the unit has (ratchet teeth) on it

Are you saying the HD Primary Chain Tensioner is hydraulic actuated ?

Yup,  I am saying exactly that!!!

Not sure which model year started it,  but my '09 has one.  I took it off and replaced it with the one I mentioned earlier

[FSG]

Yup,  I am saying exactly that!!!

Not sure which model year started it,  but my '09 has one.  I took it off and replaced it with the one I mentioned earlier

Please post a picture as I'm yet to see a Hydraulically Actuated HD (MoCo) Primary Chain Tensioner, of particular interest is what sort of pump is on it.

[moscooter]

 
Fatboy........

Click on this site and view the picture and/or video.   Their (Sohotbike.com) tensioner is hydraulically operated and looks exactly like the late model Harley one except for the HD one has ratchet teeth on the wedge and theirs does not.

http://www.sohotbikes.com/wedge.html

Are you (not) aware of hydraulic lifters in a car engine    These tensioners use the primary oil in the primary case and are activated (hydraulically) just like the lifters in your car/truck engine

[FSG]

moscooter
I am not refering to either the primary or secondary Cam Chain Tensioners, but the Primary Chain which connects the Compensator to the Clutch Basket.

In this and past threads you have inferred that the MoCo (Harley Davidson) has a Hydraulic Primary Chain Tensioner.  They do not.

[Tsani]

Fatboy........

Click on this site and view the picture and/or video.   Their (Sohotbike.com) tensioner is hydraulically operated and looks exactly like the late model Harley one except for the HD one has ratchet teeth on the wedge and theirs does not.

http://www.sohotbikes.com/wedge.html

Are you (not) aware of hydraulic lifters in a car engine    These tensioners use the primary oil in the primary case and are activated (hydraulically) just like the lifters in your car/truck engine

Hydraulic lifters are pressure feed oil. There is no oil pressure feed in the primary. If there was, they would not be able to run the primary open without making a heck of a mess. The oil they have you put in the unit is simply to lube the parts. It's the lack of the teeth that makes the thing work better than the MoCo unit.

[moscooter]

 
Tsani.........Did you click on the referenced site and look at the video.  Guess you might wanna hire an attorney and sue their azz for false advertising........since they mention it to be (hydraulic).

I fully understand there is (NO) oil pump contained within or in any other manner putting pressure (into) the primary case.  However,  there is in fact,  oil within the primary case (for lubrication purposes),  and that oil (coupled with) a spring within the tensioner and a small hole within the (wedge),  that much like a hydraulic lifter in a car.........works HYDRAULICALLY............Learn it.........Love it............believe it...........By the way,  the HD
tensioner has the same setup...........minus the ratchet teeth.  If you can't accept this FACT,  I'll just have to leave it at that.

[FSG]

By the way,  the HD tensioner has the same setup...........minus the ratchet teeth.  If you can't accept this FACT,  I'll just have to leave it at that.

You keep referring to "the HD tensioner", HD in my understanding of the English Language and abbreviations some motorcyclists use is "Harley Davidson" and they DO NOT MAKE A HYDRAULIC PRIMARY CHAIN TENSIONER, on the other hand Southern Oregon Hot Bikes do make the HB125 Hydraulic Chain Tensioner and the new HB Wedge Hydraulic Chain Tensioner which comes in 2 versions, 1970 thru 2006 Big Twins and 2007 thru 2009 Big Twins.

Perhaps you are typing HD when you really should be typing Southern Oregon Hot Bikes or perhaps HB.

[moscooter]

 
Fatboy........We're still at odds here.   I do (in fact) mean Harley Davidson......when I type in (HD).   While they may not have used the term (hydraulic) to talk about their latest model tensioner,  it is (in fact)..................Let me say it once again............It is made to actuate itself........hydraulically.

In my 2009 Service Manual,  they call the tensioner "automatic".   I guess I could take mine apart and take pictures of it,  but so far I have not.

If you are at all familiar with the older (well known) M6 after-market tensioner,  it has a heavy duty spring to actuate it along with various shims that you can use if need be.

The newer HD tensioner has a very small and weak spring in it that goes into the wedge and there is a hole drilled completely thru the wedge............guess what purpose that (hole) has and why it is there??  The primary oil that the damn tensioner is submerged in..........is forced thru the hole and provides the hydraulic assist necessary to provide the required tension on the chain.  hydraulic lifters in a car engine work in much the same manner, the car oil pump is merely supplying oil into the lifter galleries for them to use.   

[Admiral Akbar]

This is tff,,, Max

[hotroadking]

LMAO too funny...

[crazylore]

Its not just me....

[FSG]

@ crazy, HRK & Max, yes I must agree, tff   


@ moscooter, how a tensioner that uses a wedge that is under tension from a compression spring can be referred to as hydraulic is beyond me, naturally you are free to believe what you want.

Automatic Primary Chain Tensioners from Harley Davidson

40063-05    a POS
40063-05A   a POS
40063-05B   a POS

39929-06   a POS, has a thin base that bends/deforms under high tension when it ratchets up
39929-06A   you can pick it as the wedge has only 5 teeth each end, nothing in the middle, has a beefy base, still a POS but better than the '06
39929-06B   released in the '10 Models, jury is still out, may well turn out to be a POS

[FSG]

While I have a few real pix of the late model HD Automatic Primary Chain Tensioners, here's a couple of pix cut from the from the SM's.

While these are only SM Pix note the beefier bottom plate and the lack of teeth on the wedge on the '09 pic, these changes are real as per the 3rd pic.

[moscooter]

 
Yup,  those pictures appear to show pretty much what the late model HD tensioner looks like.  Once again,  I'll make the point that the SOHOTBIKE.COM tensioner (that I'm now using),  is precisely and more/less exactly like the HD one that I took out.

As I stated before,  theirs has (no ratchet teeth), and the HD one does.  While it's not clear via the pictures/diagram,  there is a small hole drilled through the wedge (beyond) the larger hole necessary for the (soda straw sized) spring to go into it.  I do (NOT) think the little spring is sufficient (on its own),  to properly take up the slack of the heavy duty primary chain.

The (sohotbike.com) unit is marketed as (being hydraulic),  since it is built 99% the same as the HD unit (except for the ratchet teeth),  I conclude for the reasons stated above that (BOTH) units are hydraulically assisted in their operation.

Now, if they are blowing smoke as to their tensoner being (hydraulic),  then we should join up and sue their azz.............Meantime,  I'm thinkin' it's TFF also........cause I'm right

[crazylore]

 ..............

[Admiral Akbar]

..cause I'm right

About what?

Max

[crazylore]

Correct me if I am wrong but in reply #10 is a link to watch a video......there is no cover on that primary thus no oil to speak of....so where is the hyd press coming from.....just curious not trying to stir the pot....would you agree Max ?